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Sex scenes?

Lothere's picture

Submitted by Lothere on Sat, 12/13/2008 - 05:47.

MOAR!!! You can never have too many!
21% (4 votes)
I wouldn't mind a few more
58% (11 votes)
No more, no less
21% (4 votes)
Less, please
0% (0 votes)
None, please
0% (0 votes)
Total votes: 19
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Lothere's picture

I considered titling this

Submitted by Lothere on Sat, 12/13/2008 - 06:08.

I considered titling this "Non-violent sex scenes" but not only did that sound creepy from what it implied, I am also not sure how to work much more sex into the story the tame way.

I try really hard to model each chapter around the form of a gradual building of conflict and its resolution at the end (even if the "resolution" only bootstraps the story into a higher level of conflict, à la Araphel realizing Malcolm may suspect something is fishy about him, and Rua breaking down her pride just long enough to hand over her necklace for Dante to do God-knows-what with it, to name the two most recent examples).

And the problem with normal people having normal sex is that there's not a lot of conflict there, and I am afraid such chapters would just turn into an opportunity for voyeurism for us. Maybe that's OK? I am aware there is a whole massive genre of fiction based entirely around that format. Smile Fun, but not as satisfying as characters in conflict, if you ask me. You often don't even remember the characters after those books are done, it was all about their bodies.

Even if the conflict would be "Can X get into Y's pants?" by the time you get to the actual sex (or Y slapping X and storming out), the conflict is resolved one way or another and it's time to move on to the next chapter. I mean, it's not just prudery that would cause me or certain authors/filmmakers to cut to the next scene as soon as X and Y lie down on the bed. The dramatic part is actually over by then.

The only two chapters I can think of where I actually wrote in detail the act of "normal people having normal sex" are "Britamund becomes a wife" and "Estrid is made molten". Are there others? In those chapters the conflict is either in the sex itself (Brit vs. her fears) or caused by it (Estrid's WTF is happening here? expression throughout and then K's douchebaggery at the end, which Estrid handles deliciously).

I fear the result, therefore, is nothing but chapters about rape and weird domination stuff *cough*Egelric*cough* and otherwise just normal people having angsty sex. (Sigefrith and Eadie anyone?) So maybe I need some "normal" stuff to break the tension a little?

Thoughts?

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Van's picture

Malcolm and Maud had some

Submitted by Van on Sat, 12/13/2008 - 13:07.

Malcolm and Maud had some fairly normal sex, adultery aside. You're right about the fact that the normal sex doesn't have much of a conflict, but if it can contribute to the story, you should definitely write it.

I would definitely not object to Sigefrith and Eadie. I've already expressed that I think Eadie should get pregnant again Smile And I do still have some hopes for Alred and Hetty in the somewhat distant future, providing that they manage to rekindle their relationship.

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Lothere's picture

Ooh yeah! Malcolm and Maud!

Submitted by Lothere on Sat, 12/13/2008 - 14:36.

Ooh yeah! Malcolm and Maud! I had sorta forgotten those chapters. There was "Maud is defeated" (though I cut to the next chapter right when that started getting good), and "Malcolm goes to Maud" which does have sex right in the middle of it, but it's more pictures than words. (And not very explicit pictures, either, though it does appear a good time was had by all.)

I wish I had done some Alred and Matilda back in the day. (That would have been a good writing exercise for sure. Shocked) I will have to make up for it with Gwynn and somebody. Very Happy

I'm not sure Eadie will get pregnant again, though you can imagine it's on her mind. And it's a shame because that's precisely why sex with those two may become chapter-worthy.

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François's picture

I voted for No more, no

Submitted by François on Sun, 12/14/2008 - 04:30.

I voted for No more, no less, because I think your chapters about sex are well-balanced within the story. Anyway, it would be interesting to see a Sigefrith - Eadie scene since she's so prude and that we never saw Sigefrith "in action" .

~Your French Friend~

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Karen's picture

I've gotten the impression

Submitted by Karen on Sun, 12/14/2008 - 05:43.

I've gotten the impression that Eadie is probably not a total prude in the bedroom. In "Sigfrith sees the next-to-last man" after that whole debacle with Cedric asking her to ask Sigefrith to spare that guy's life, Leofric talked to Sigefrith who took delight in telling him about being in bed with her.

Leofric gave him a shrewd stare, but Sigefrith ignored it and teased on.

“And I strictly forbid you to spank Eadie—I reserve that delightful duty for myself.”

Leofric grimaced, and Sigefrith laughed at him.

“You weren’t too angry at my baby, were you?” Leofric growled.

“Only just enough to impress her into not trying it again,” Sigefrith winked.  “And there’s nothing on earth like a contrite woman in your bed, as you would know if you had ever once stopped being wicked long enough to let a woman feel naughty in comparison.”

I'm assuming that "We MUST make a baby!" sex would be far less pleasant between them, though.

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Lothere's picture

Eadie is not so bad in bed.

Submitted by Lothere on Sun, 12/14/2008 - 10:23.

Eadie is not so bad in bed. Her mother is certainly not the type to instruct her to lie still and pray for it to be over soon, so she wasn't forearmed with dread.

And Eadie herself is so worshipful of her older "great man" of a husband that she wouldn't expect he could ever ask her to do anything that was wrong. On the contrary I would imagine she was a willing student and has been a "dutiful wife" in everything he asks.

She has just enough natural shyness to charm Sigefrith -- Sigefrith probably wouldn't like a tigress like Matilda -- but once behind closed doors she isn't a prude. She's more like the type who would do whatever he wants, blushing prettily all the while. The perfect woman, in his mind. Smile

But she definitely doesn't like talking about it outside of the bedroom, so Brit has had to find her own way. From what we saw, Brit's before-wedding talk seems to have consisted of little more than a warning that it would "look impossible" and that it would hurt. I am sure that was not the talk Lady Eadgith gave Eadie, but Eadie just couldn't bring herself to say those things.

I am curious to see how things are going to go with Gwynn and Margaret. Gwynn had "the talk" with Hetty when she "became a woman" but it seems to have been the abridged version. From "Leofric sees the daughter":

Surely “lying with” a man had little to do with the dreadful thumping, grunting, and squealing of menservants and maids that occasionally arose from the closets of her father’s castle.  Hetty had never explained to her what part of being with a man involved such exertions.

Gwynn thought it must have been different with gentlemen.  Surely King David had been a gentleman, and this was what Hetty had meant with her “lying close together in the bed”.  Hetty had assured her she would like it if she let herself.  Gwynn thought she would, though she scarcely knew where to begin in her imaginings.  That did not stop her from trying to imagine, however.

Oh, Gwynn! Are we ever going to have fun with you!

Margaret meanwhile in her level-headed way seems to know all the details, even unto masculine masturbation. There is equal potential for fun there, if you ask me.

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Lothere's picture

Oh yeah, and on the topic of

Submitted by Lothere on Sun, 12/14/2008 - 10:35.

Oh yeah, and on the topic of baby-making sex with Eadie there is this rather controversial chapter from early 1084:

He was beginning to find even the pleasant duties of a husband to his wife to be a burden.  It had all become so prescribed and proper that a nun would not have blushed, so mechanical and mindless that Eadgith could have managed it in his sleep if men and women had been constructed differently.  It was so apparent that she wanted a baby that it was becoming very difficult to tell she wanted her husband at all.

...

Sometimes through sheer male stubbornness he would pretend to ignore her yawns until he had built up such a store of silent resentment that, when he finally took her to bed, he—

He could not—simply could not.  He was not quite forty-two, he was never ill, he was not often drunk, but when faced with this outwardly beautiful, inwardly rapacious woman, sometimes he simply could not.  A man’s body had a mind of its own, as Alred liked to say—not that he supposed Alred had ever found himself in that situation.

Sigefrith had always thought that the humiliating sympathy of a woman under those circumstances would be more crushing even than mockery, but he had learned that there was worse than either of those two things.  Eadgith looked at him then with the sullen indignation of a woman who believed she was being denied something she was owed, and with such an air of self-righteousness that he supposed she expected him to thank her for forgiving him.

He was beginning to think a man could come to hate a woman for that.

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Cassie's picture

Was that chapter

Submitted by Cassie on Sun, 12/14/2008 - 11:44.

Was that chapter controversial? I thought a good consensus was that Eadgith needed to grow up and get over herself and that both of them were in serious need of therapy. That's certainly the conclusion I came to.
Anyway, I think sex scenes are always fun Wink As long as they have a good point to them and illustrate character development. (Not that I'd expect anything else, but still.) I'm sure they're really difficult to write, though. Especially if they're "normal" sex scenes.
I would have loved more of Alred + Matilda sex scenes. We did have a couple of them, as I recall, but they were depressing ones in the worst of their marital issues. Oh, and we had Leof + Matilda sex scenes (at least one, anyway) which was arguably even more depressing. It was so awful how she self-destructive she got at the end of her life. Sad
------------------------------------------------------------
I'm romantic, literary, cynical, and a diehard Alred Sebright groupie.

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Devin's picture

Well we've had some pretty

Submitted by Devin on Sun, 12/14/2008 - 12:20.

Well we've had some pretty good after glow scenes, I would say my favorites would be the one after Egelric and Lili had sex and Lili tried to persuade Egelric into letting Sophie live with them and the other one is after Egelric and Sela made love and she explained how relationships between men and elves are forbidden. It was a tragic but romantic post.

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Lothere's picture

The part about Eadie needing

Submitted by Lothere on Sun, 12/14/2008 - 12:21.

The part about Eadie needing to move on from her grief and to realize that she wasn't the only person in the world who had lost a child (starting with Sigefrith, who had lost two) -- that wasn't controversial.

The controversial part (in my mind at least!) was this one:

“Why am I the one man who doesn’t get to see you smile?  When I should be the first to get a smile from you even if it’s the only one you have left in the world?  Why?”

“But, Sigefrith!  I can only be myself with you!  For everyone else I must pretend to be happy, but with you I needn’t pretend!”

“Why not?”

“Because—because you’re my husband!  I shouldn’t have to pretend with you, too!”

“Why not?”

“Because!  Because!  You’re my husband!”

Assuming we allow Eadie her grief (which, to the extent that it doesn't grow to unhealthy excess, I think we should) the question is how much slack Sigefrith ought to cut her, vs. how much "kindness" he deserves himself:

“I’m your husband!” he agreed.  He did not turn to her, but watched in fascination his angry self in the mirror.  “And you’re my wife!  And so I think you owe me a little kindness now and then!”

“Kindness!” she cried.  “How can you say I am not kind to you!  You know what I have endured!  You can’t expect me to laugh and smile as if nothing had ever happened!”

“You do for everyone else.  Everyone else but me!”

“But you know me and love me!” she pleaded.  “You know how I have suffered!  I can’t be strong all the time, all the time!”

“And so the dregs are given me, after everyone else has drunk the wine!  I call that unkind!”

Sigefrith's premise is basically this:

"I should be the first to get a smile from you even if it’s the only one you have left in the world."

And Eadgith's is this:

"For everyone else I must pretend to be happy, but with you I needn’t pretend!"

Who's right and who's wrong here? For myself I can say that the answer I would give at 32 is not the same I would have given at 22. (And may not be the same I will give at 42.)

Their vain, unproductive back-and-forth -- "Why not? Because you're my husband! Why not? Because you're my husband." -- is so symptomatic of them -- that couple and their utter failure to communicate whenever things break down.

It's really heartless for me to do this to those two characters, but I find their dynamic fascinating and I admit I am looking forward to going there again.

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Karen's picture

Aww, that makes me sad.

Submitted by Karen on Sun, 12/14/2008 - 19:41.

Aww, that makes me sad. Even after all you've said about your thoughts/plans for their future, I still hope that everything will get better. I fell in love with them as a couple before they ever were a couple, and I just always wish that maybe they'll snap out of whatever keeps them from communicating.

Oh well. I suppose that I'll save my wishes up for Gwynn/Finn one day, instead. Smile

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PenelopetheFox's picture

I'm with Karen.

Submitted by PenelopetheFox on Tue, 12/16/2008 - 11:58.

I'm with Karen.

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